Prabhupada: [Hindi conversation] I have gone through variety stages of life. So I have got full experience of this material world. I don't want. That determination is there. Society, family, love, friendship, these nonsense, everything – out! I have tasted. I am no more interested with this material. That is niskincana. Finished.
Tamala Krishna: Distaste for all worldly things.
Prabhupada: That I am realizing, that Krishna pushed, dragged me through all circumstances, that "These are useless." Niskincanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukha… [Cc. Madhya 11.8]. That is required. Just like Jagai-Madhai, they were made to promise, "No more." "Yes, sir, no more." "Then I accept you. That's all right." "No." And they made it, kept their promise. They became faithful.
Tamala Krishna: Actually you also demand of us that promise: "Now whatever you have done, never mind, but no more. Follow these four principles." That means if the devotees don't follow, then they will not make advancement.
Prabhupada: They are breaking their promise. Before accepting them, I make him promise.
They promise it. If they break, what can I do?
Tamala Krishna: Then the connection, the contract is finished.
Prabhupada: This should be the principle: "No more this." Then he becomes fit. Ara nahe vakya.
Tamala Krishna: Therefore accepting initiation is a serious matter.
Prabhupada: Initiation means seriously take up the… Tamala Krishna: Vow.
Prabhupada: And if you make it a fun business, then I become implicated, you become implicated.
Tamala Krishna: In what way does the spiritual master become…?
Prabhupada: Well, this is then something.[?]
Tamala Krishna: He has to work very hard on behalf of the disciple…
Prabhupada: No. To accept his sinful reaction.
Tamala Krishna: He does that.
Prabhupada: It is not easy job to become a spiritual master. Yes. Then when it is overloaded, you'll suffer.
Tamala Krishna: Krishna transfers the sinful reaction unto the spiritual master from the disciple?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krishna: Why? Is it because there will be such a heavy…?
Prabhupada: Krishna says… That is the principle. This is, aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami [Bg. 18.66]. "You have to take all the sinful reactions." This is the principle, that Krishna is God; He can nullify everything. But I am not God. When it is overloaded, I have to suffer. This is the principle that the Christian idea, that Christ takes.
Tamala Krishna: The trouble with the Christians is that they never relieved Christ. They go on sinning. That's not love.
Prabhupada: Yes. The principle is that the spiritual master takes all the resultant sinful action, but the disciple also says that "Now, stop it. Otherwise my spiritual master…" That is gentleman.
And "Now use that thing, go on taking our sinful reaction. We will go on with our own business."
Tamala Krishna: That's not loving at all. That is taking advantage.
Prabhupada: That is cheating.
Tamala Krishna: Cheating.
Prabhupada: The same cheating. And he is not liberated because he continues cheating.
Tamala Krishna: Frankly, though, we can see by Christianity that some defect is there. Either it's probably not there on the part of Jesus. He could have given them a way to purify themself, but they…
Prabhupada: One chance, that "You have accepted me; I take your all sinful reactions." But these rascals continue.
Tamala Krishna: His point was that "Now you must continue to follow my instructions." Prabhupada: Yes. Otherwise why ten commandments? And these rascals took it that "I shall not follow any of you. You take our sinful reaction. It is very good religion."
Tamala Krishna: And therefore they say no one is more merciful than Jesus.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krishna: Even if… We are doing anything, but he still forgives us.
Prabhupada: This is going on. Therefore according to history, he retired. That is resurrection.
He went to Kashmir. "It is hopeless."
Tamala Krishna: He didn't die on the cross.
Prabhupada: It is not possible to kill him. Such a great personality, representative of God, he is not killed. That is not possible.
Tamala Krishna: Simply by putting some wounds.
Prabhupada: He made a show that "I am killed." That is resurrection. And when you finished
your business, then he will go [indistinct].
Tamala Krishna: Yeah, they say that when he got down they rubbed his body with oils.
Prabhupada: He was a great yogi and so on.
Tamala Krishna: You remember in that book you were reading, The Aquarian Gospel. It mentioned how he learned yoga when he came to India.
Prabhupada: We admit. Guru Maharaja said saktyavesa-avatara, powerful incarnation.
Therefore whenever there was question of Jesus, I never disrespected Jesus, never criticized him, because I know that he is powerful representative of God. We took it from Guru Maharaja.
Tamala Krishna: Your Guru Maharaja would sometimes… Prabhupada: He said that Christ is saktyavesa-avatara, as Buddha. How he can be otherwise?
He sacrificed everything for God. He cannot be ordinary man.
Tamala Krishna: You want [indistinct]?
Prabhupada: Hmm. That Melbourne meeting, it was… You were present?
Tamala Krishna: No, I heard about it. With the monks, I think.
Prabhupada: They very much appreciated. Because they saw that I have got full respect for Christ and his real disciples. And actually we have. Why not? He said, "Thou shalt not kill," and they are interpreting killing. This is going on. And they are Christian. Just see how much cheating. It is clearly written, "Thou shalt not kill." And their only business is killing, and still, they are Christian. How much cheating it is. Whatever little success is in our movement, the cause is I have not tried to cheat. Honestly, what I knew, I heard it from Guru Maharaja and scripture, I took it. There was no cheating. – Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) – April 16, 1977, Bombay